America, fuck yea!

[Szeria]

*scowls* you are lucky I like you...

[Pyro]

*scowls* you are lucky I like you...

Rawrawrawr.

[Atvar]

He just knows his history a little bit better than most.  Sort of ironic that most of those weapons killing the troops overseas have "Made in USA" stamped on them.

Since when are AK's, IEDs and RPGs made in USA?

I'd love to see numbers on how many people civilians Saddam and Al Qaeda killed while they controlled their respective countries, but I don't think they were keeping a tally.  I think the major reason US caused deaths is so high is because we're the only ones that force ourselves to publicly keep track. 

The TSA and increased government surveillance really sucks.  Every time you get groped going to the airport might as well be Osama grabbing your junk from the grave.  If we really want to put this all behind us, that BS needs to go. 

[Calixto]

Don't you guys know that American lives are inherently more valuable?

[Szeria]

The TSA and increased government surveillance really sucks.  Every time you get groped going to the airport might as well be Osama grabbing your junk from the grave.  If we really want to put this all behind us, that BS needs to go. 

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

[Gamgan]

Since when are AK's, IEDs and RPGs made in USA?

The Russians, at the Afgan government's request, sent in weapons and troops to aid the lawful government against insurgents.  Carter, taking the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" approach sent arms to the insurgents, who after the fall of the Soviet Union seized control of the country (as well as the communist government's weapons).

http://www.smithheggumreport.com/?p=304

I'd love to see numbers on how many people civilians Saddam and Al Qaeda killed while they controlled their respective countries, but I don't think they were keeping a tally.

Before or after the US (and some other capitalist countries) stopped arming him (Osama)?  He was the American hero who was instrumental in the collapse of the Soviet Union, after all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_in_Afghanistan

Either way, my point isn't to endorse anything either side has done, but to point out that there's plenty of blame to go around for how events have transpired.

[Atvar]

Yeah... and your statement about made in the USA weapons killing the majority of Americans is still wrong.  Supplying stinger missiles to shoot down Soviet helicopters 20 years ago has fuckall to do with today.  Show me one instance of a US made stinger missile shooting down an American. 

For casualty figures, I'm mostly interested in the 90's-00's when the Taliban came into power.  From a quick skimming of wikipedia:

Upon taking Mazar-i-Sharif in 1998, about 4,000 civilians were executed by the Taliban and many more reported tortured

It seems like Afghanistan is a hell hole where thousands of people are killed every year, regardless of who happens to be involved. 

[bloose]

Watch Charlie Wilson's war imo.

[Kainzzo]

Then watch Rambo III where he aids the Muslim fighters in Pakistan.

Prior to the American war in Afghanistan, the ending quote of the movie read "This film is dedicated to the brave Mujahideen fighters of Afghanistan".

I guess I'll watch it too since the hackers broke the internet.

[Atvar]

Watch Charlie Wilson's war imo.

I've seen it.  Decently entertaining, but completely different time period for my argument.

[Longears]

I can understand the human desire for vengeance.  I can understand relief at the falling of one's enemies.  But again, rejoicing at the death of another human being is unbecoming of a civilized human being.  

I completely disagree.  Celebrating the death of a human, be it from old age, valiant death or from a murder is not uncivilized at all.  We are completely aware of why we are celebrating.  It also is far from wrong.  We live in the land of the free, we are given the civil liberty to cheer for the bad guy or in this case celebrate his murder.  This weekend I'll gladly drink to his death.
Hopefully I'll get laid as well.  I'm not going to pick a fight or incite a riot. The complaining and raining on our parade with your "this is not civilized bullshit" however is not cool.  No one likes a party pooper.  Ruining peoples good time because you want to make them feel they are bad for their positive emotions is far more uncivilized.

Szeria, very dated quote.  You are quoting a man who was from a time when America was not the jewel of the earth. Few envied us, even less hated us and I think he owned a slave or two. 

[Zama]

You are quoting a man who was from a time when America was not the jewel of the earth.

  America is still far from the jewel of the world. Most of the world hates america, and right now the only thing america has going for it is weapons and war. If anything stopping war would be bad for the american public.

[Longears]

  America is still far from the jewel of the world. Most of the world hates america, and right now the only thing america has going for it is weapons and war. If anything stopping war would be bad for the american public.

Naive statement.  You have a clue how most view our country, lots of friends from varied backrounds and means in Afghanistan, Eygyt, China, Denmark, Russia?  I doubt there is even a decent poll with any merit out there that would back up or dismiss your statement.  I was in SE asia for a couple weeks and I did not find one person who had any hatred toward me or my country and I met many many people.  Several were from Europe but equally as many were locals. What people hate are rude asshole.  I know plenty more french people who fit that bill.

[Philphans]

You are quoting a man who was from a time when America was not the jewel of the earth.

  America is still far from the jewel of the world. Most of the world hates america, and right now the only thing america has going for it is weapons and war. If anything stopping war would be bad for the american public.

people hate the US for the same reason people hate RoI.  We have everything we want in this country. Top tech. Lots of freedoms, food, shelter.. little fear of being killed by your own government.  When you are on top people hate you for being on top. There is envy, jealousy whatever.   

[Gamgan]

people hate the US for the same reason people hate RoI.  We have everything we want in this country. Top tech. Lots of freedoms, food, shelter.. little fear of being killed by your own government.  When you are on top people hate you for being on top. There is envy, jealousy whatever.

Not exactly.  Most of developed countries have what you listed (basically all of Europe, Australia, Canada, and some parts of South America), yet the public opinion is not nearly as bad of those countries as it is for the US.

I believe the issue is more about the government's foreign policy mostly consisting of brawns instead of brains.  More often than not, conflicts tend to come down to a stick measuring contest.  So in a sense, you're right, since these points apply to a lot of RoI as well.  Our "foreign policies" have sucked eversince RoI was formed (right now is the best it's ever been afaik), as a lot of people let their ego drive their actions.

Other issues are using all sorts of propaganda to justify these actions.  No weapons of mass destruction?  Hmm, well... we did liberate the country of a ruthless dictator, and gave their women equal rights with the puppet government we installed.  Look how humaine we are.  Oh, there has been heavy pirate activity in Somalia for decades?  Ruthless dictators in Zimbabwe, Sudan and North Korea?  Well, there isn't really anything there that interests us...